Religious Nazi Unicorns?

I have often been accused of being to harsh in my arguments against religion, as one poster (Joe) recently said “you don’t have to be an asshole about it!”.

Well it depends on how you look at it, from my standpoint i am exceptionally restrained in my posts against religion, because i have seen countless times how mindbogglingly dangerous and stupid following a religion is! You have to be a complete idiot to defend or follow any religion.

May i remind you about the ridiculous response from the Islamic community to the Danish caricature drawings.

Where i live, if you claim to be religious, people rightfully look down at you, you might as well claim to be a Nazi that believes in unicorns! Religious people are finding it hard to find work, (even though the economy is booming) their kids are ridiculed in school, etc, in fact society at large is starting to shun these religious morons and their stupid superstitions as they should be.

It will probably take 30 years but the rest of the world will follow, and free itself from these ancient superstitions. If we don’t the human race will go extinct, if we want to survive as a spices we can no longer afford to live our lives in a modern world while our mind is anchored in fairytale that stem’s from the bronze age.

Let me give you an example of why these beliefs are so dangerous and stupid. For example 50% of Christian Americans believe that Jesus will return to earth to judge humanity in their lifetime? 50 fucking percent! and why is this a problem you might say? well do you think these people care about pollution or global warming? i mean from their standpoint the entire world is going to end in their lifetime anyway!

Bronze age mindsets belong in the bronze age, not in todays society, yet still we have suicide bombers, creationists, sexual mutilation, etc, etc, etc the list of unnecessary suffering, cruelty, and stupidity goes on and on.

You might ask what right i have to make any claims about religion, firstly i have studies religion. (yes i have actually read all the stupid superstitious nonsense) I have also done a lot of humanitarian work all around the world, (i used to work for the UN) and there is but one common denominator to all the worlds worst conflict areas, this meaningless cruelty, opression and incredible suffering all around the world stems from one thing. Religion!

In fact i bet $1 000 that religion will be the cause of the following in the next 10 years

  1. India and Pakistan will fight a nuclear war over Kashmir.
  2. The middle east conflict will still be raging between Israel and all its neighbors.
  3. All religious African countries will still be corrupt and even worse off then they are today.
  4. Secular violence in Iraq will be even worse than today.
  5. Iran will still export the same things they exported when the priests took power, pistachio nuts and rugs.
  6. World wide terrorism anchored in religious superstition will increase dramatically.
  7. Afghanistan will still be a lost cause, a violent, dangerous, religious, tribal, wasteland.
  8. Western powers will drastically curtail immigration from all religious countries.
  9. More countries will free themselves from religious superstitions and these will be the worlds leading nations with hordes of people from religious societies knocking at their doors looking for a better life.
  10. The standard of living in all religious countries will stand still or continue to decline.
  11. America will turn towards atheism, in disgust of religious stupidity.
  12. Claiming to be religious will be frowned upon in most of the developed world.

By the end of 10 years religion will be responsible for the needless death and untold suffering of hundreds of millions of people.

Lets rip this festering, cancerous, puss ball from humanity and start thinking for ourselves! lets find out how we will deal with todays problems with todays knowledge, technology and frame of mind, lets forget this stupid archaic nonsense from the bronze age.

9 Responses to Religious Nazi Unicorns?

  1. Muzolf says:

    Well said, altough i am sure Escaped would disagree with the last statement about having several religions.

    While i wouldnt agree with his ideas on the matter i have to whonder sometimes.

    I have to remember how the Roman empire had several religions, and that ultimatly religious tolerance did bring about their downfall in the end.

    They didnt realise the threat of christianity to their civilisation soon enough, and who knows, what even more malavolent and destcructive cults could come to power in the future. Just think on scientology.

  2. Realist says:

    Sadly, it is not going to be an atheist world in 30 or 300 years. I’ll be happy if an atheist can successfully run for and win a major political office in 30 years in the US. If you consider the rest of the world outside of NZ and AU and the more well-off areas of Europe, there is so much of religion woven into peoples’ lives that it would take generations under even the best conditions. People don’t tend to give up their beliefs in one generation, it takes several generations of living in a society where religion has less hold on private lives, where exposure to other beliefs (and other religions) builds tolerance for other ideas and a relaxation of dogma.

  3. Muzolf says:

    Escaped, while this post is quite old, i would like to discuss some of your predictions.

    Particularry the one about stopping imigration, and the loss of followers.

    In case of christianity alone:
    While it is true, that most churches had members who left them, the majority were not deconverts, but it was mostly the moderate groups losing people to the evangelical christians, the more dangerous sort of factions who are openly agressive.
    The ones actually leaving it behind, as far as i can tell are children who never really buy the whole thing. But the problem is you see, first of. Imigrants are more than making up the loss of followers in advanced countries, and its not very likely that these countries will really stop imigration, not until the actual ones with the power need cheap labour.

    And there is the issue with both Christanity and Islam, especially in less developed countries where the lack of education and popular culture doesnt ereases the negative infulence of religion in matters like planned families and birth control, the people breed like rabbits. And for evry child that leaves religion, there are six more who dont.

    In the end, the fundamentalist religious outbreed both atheists and their better educated moderate counterpars. And as long as there is need for uneducated, cheap labour in the developed countres, they will be open for it. Because its a general rule that more advenced societies seem to have a dwindling population.

    Wich would be good overall, as less people consume less resources, but in a free market economy and consumer society where the motto is consume, grow, consume, grow, the objective is not long term survivability but short term profit.

    The united states will certanly not move trough atheism, as the star of the USA is allready falling. As military power becomes less important in world politics and for upholding the living standard of your people, the United states will have increasing levels of povery, and we all know how poverty, and lack of education helps spreading religion.

  4. I believe you have a very valid point, as to our differing definitions on religion.

    If I get the gist of your argument so far and what I can read on your blogg you combine my “text book” definition of religion with spirituality? Please correct me if I am wrong.

    I see them as totally separate, religion and spirituality (the joy I feel thinking about my kids, marveling at a beautiful landscape, feeling totally at peace, etc.) I can easily see how evolution would develop such a revard system in humans and that such traits would be competitive from a biological and evolutionary standpoint.

    Many people have argued to me that they need religion to be spiritual, but isnt that cheating yourself? Giving away control over your spirituality to a historical imaginary friend?

    I cant see, and noone has ever given me any credible arguments as to why their bronce age literature or faith schould enable them to be more spiritual?

    “the mindset of this age that says that humanity’s capacity for reason is the God of this world.” Very interesting viewpoint, I hadn’t really though of it like that, I will give it some serious thought.

    Your argument about cause and effect in the universe is complete nonsense though, 50 years ago we didn’t know about the evolution of galaxies, but it still happened even though we didn’t know about it. Just because we haven’t figured it out and proven a lot about the universe yet isnt an argument that there is a sky daddy?
    In fact I could turn the argument around and say the same to you, who created the creator? I don’t see it as very fruitful to enter into a dialog based on such speculation.

    You misunderstand me a bit I think when I say I don’t miss a sky daddy when I wake up in the morning, its not like I wake up and think “Jeepii there is no god” I just don’t think about it at all. I don’t miss anything so I don’t think about it at all.

    Of course there is no way of absolutely proving or disproving the existence of God, nor is it possible to prove or disprove, trolls, unicorns, pixies, fairies, etc. the point is that God isnt any more credible than the trolls or pixies for that matter, and extraordinary claims made without evidence schould also be dismissed without evidence. Just like you would probably dismiss fairies, ufo’s or unicorns.

    Your comparison between the holy books of the world and science is just silly, Science is an evolving groing field of knowledge where conclusions have to be proven tested independently and universally accepted before they are put forward as fact. While religion or holy books do it the other way around. They are diametrically opposite.

    Science: here is the evidence, lets see if we can draw any conclutions from it.
    Religion: here is the conclusion, lets see if we can find any evidence to support it.

    Besides science also denies pixies unicorns etc, because there is no evidence for it, no evidence at all. Nor does science claim to have an exclusive hold on truth, science claims to seek the truth, and it demands evidence before drawing any conclutions. Your comparison between science, religion and holy books is fatally flawed.

    In fact we are all born atheist contrary to your claims, no newborn believes in God, they cant even control their bodily functions or think in a way we would call conscious. It’s the parents that label the child as belonging to their “cult” (pun intended) i personally feel that this is child abuse and that it schould be outlawed. You are not allowed to bring your child up as a Marxist, Nazi or racist, so why schould you be allowed label your child and to enforce your superstitions on it?

    Either way, you must accept a bill of goods that someone else spoon feeds to you.

    That is just the point atheists don’t spoon feed anyone anything, atheist simply point out that what you believe is wrong, what you believe is totally improbable, and anchoring your life in a bronze age world view and mindset is dangerous and hinders you from leading a full life.

    We don’t offer an alternative superstition to replace your old superstition.

    From birth we are equipped to deal with the world, and shifting the responsibility of living away from your own critical thought process to a collective external organization or book with a hopelessly antiquated view of the world, is not only dangerous! It demeans and reduces your entire life from a position where you are in charge and can take credit for all your faults and victories to a position where you are simply a puppet acting out some pre-determined play that was written before you where even born. Its demeaning.

  5. The real difficulty in this discussion we find ourselves in is that we have two very different definitions of religion. You are viewing Religion by a very narrow window of an Organized religion… which is only kind of true. A dictionary definition, if you will…
    “1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.” The reality of the situation is that Religion is a lens through which we view the world, just like being a vicitm of abuse is a lens through which we view the world. Everyone, due to their upbringing and various forms of education, have pre-determined mindsets that constrict their reason… no human reasoning is pure logic, because we have very complex psycological structures. I have not claimed that religion is perfect (an answer to your above objections to the Bible), but on the other hand, if someone cuts me off on the highway, I’m not going to pull an Uzi and slay their family, because the Bible also says “You shall not murder.” Admittedly, you are very free of anything that might be called “bronze-age” midsets…however, you are very steeped in the mindset of this age that says that humanity’s capacity for reason is the God of this world. If our sense of reason is the only thing out there, then it is invalid to dispute anyone else’s belief, strictly because many of them can give you what, to them, seems a very reasonable explaination of why they believe what they do. A Muslim can give you what he believes to be a very reasonable explaination of why suicide bombers are okay, and if he is following his reason, then he has done exactly what you have done in deciding about religion being complete poppy-cock. The problem with our reasonings is that there are certain absolutes that do not change… 2+2 always equals 4. This sets an interesting precedent, because it means that there ARE absolutes in this ‘ol world. And if you really believe in logic being everything it’s cracked up to be, play a little cause-and-effect game with yourself related to the beginning of the universe… eventually you run out of causes to match the effects.

    As for your waking up in the morning, not believing there is a God is just as caustic and illogical as believing there is a God. Unless by miracles (which are happening in Christian churches in the thrid world by the thousands), there is no way to scientifically prove OR DISPROVE the existence of a God. Atheism is a religion that has a holy book… it’s called a science text book. It has its apologists… which is painfully obvious. It has its own set of unprovable doctrines… it deny’s the existence of God and claims that it has an exclusive hold on the truth that God is not real. It’s not like the Christian wakes up every morning and misses the days when God wasn’t around… why? Because they believe solidly in the existence of God from day 1 to day whenever. The Atheist wakes up and doesn’t miss God, because they are convinced that God doesn’t exist. I find it funny that no religion claims to be a religion, and claims every other religion is a cult… and the same is true of Atheists. I do not buy the theory that every person in a religion (which is everyone on the planet) has a specific flaw in their mind that makes them incapable of logic and reason… simply because people are converted into a religion, which means they must make a reasonable decision inside their own mind to accept the tenets of said religion. No man is born an atheist just as no man is born a Christian. Either way, you must accept a bill of goods that someone else spoon feeds to you. Whether you learned this information from a book or from a pastor is irrelevant, at some point, you must trust someone else to know exactly what they are talking about and the truth of how it relates to you. And that is the true problem of this discussion and line of thinking.

  6. I find your viewpoint very interesting, but i am unsure on some points.

    Firstly i cannot agree with how easily you connect religion and belief,

    Religion is an organized force that is external from the individual and that tries to control the individuals actions and choices, it is a form of control or government if you will.

    While belief is personal, based on out the individuals internal judgment,

    Since religion exists there must be some inherent flaw in many peoples brains (they are idiots) that allows them to follow for example Islam or to be a Mormon. Their brain don’t have the ability to use reason or logic to guide it, it cannot go outside what it has been told to believe.

    I might be mistaking here im not any sort of expert on Renaissance doctrine, but if i remember what i learned in school correctly the two main things in said doctrine is the scientific method and free market economy?

    The only method we have that is corrective, is as you point out the scientific method, isn’t this then the only feasible way to “fix” ourselves?

    As to the nation of china, they have had many corrective incidents, the latest being moving from a purely communist policy to a semi free market economy so to claim that china is a continual 2000 year empire is wrong. China hasn’t been static it continually evolves.

    I dont agree that Religion is a necessary part of human identity, when i get up in the morning i dont miss any kind of “sky daddy” and i dont think anyone will be surprised after they die, on the count of being dead.

    However i totally agree with you that my view of the world and if there, is, or is not any deity will flavor my choices in life.

    And that is the point of many of my posts, by being free of bronze age doctrine and superstition i can tackle the challenges that face me with an open mind, and fleksibility. I dont aprocah the problem with a pre-determined mindsett,

    Examples:
    Religious: According to my ancient fairytale book, the deity wants me to stone you to death for committing adultery.

    Non-religious: You cheated, do i leave you or not? maybe i forgive you for the sake of the kids.
    —————

    Religious: The Vatican says condoms are bad so i will have unprotected sex even though i am in sub Saharan Africa

    Non-religious: HIV is rampant here i better protect myself while having sex.
    —————

    Religion is just stupid, if you had this mindset in any other scenario you would be ridiculed, but by proclaiming your choice on the bases of religion. people are expected to respect you for it! its indescribably moronic.

    Religion should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

    elief is our minds reasoning ability that allows us to make choices like we do every day based on fuzzy or

    ie: iwant a car so i will save

  7. The real issue I take with saying that we need to scrap religion completely is that Religion stems from Belief, and belief is something we all have. That being said, we all have a form of religion… the question is, what are we worshipping? Some of us pay homage to our sense’s of reason, some to flat out idols made of wood or rock, some to celebrities, and some to our science. IMO, the last one is the most distructive. Why? Because science is a “self-correcting system”, which essentially means it’s incorrect in its current form, but its getting better! **insert sarcastic note here** Renaissance doctrine, on the other hand, cannot be logically proven. Firstly because none of us were alive before hand, so we are actually in no position to judge one time frame from the other. Secondly, it is a serious logical flaw to say that something is better or worse merely because of its age. Thirdly, humanity has a tremendous tendency to over-estimate its own abilities. Notice how just about every family is disfunctional in one way or another? If we were capable of “fixing” ourselves, by now we would have. About the long term viability, the only Empire continually in existence for more than 2000 years is the Chinese nation… so I think there is atleast SOMETHING of redeeming value of the more ancient mindset. We do not, with our more modern mindset, have anything comparable to that.

    As for the more general importance of Religion, when the Romans began their conquests, they made great strides to not interfere with the religions of the people they conquered, introducing a relatively new concept in empire building… that of subjecting without seriously upsetting the people. In fact, until the the Persian King Cyrus came around in 538 BCE, the common practice was to take a conquered people, deport them to somewhere else in the empire, and attempt to assimilate the culture. The Romans, on the other hand, knew that if you took over and didn’t upset the apple cart, you would still have all the apples. Who cares who is in charge if nothing really changes?

    Religion, in the proper sense, is more than just a superstition that people follow, it is an integral part of the human identity. Now, obviously, not every religion is true, and I’m sure that more than a few people will be very, highly surprised when they die and we find out who was right. But the main point is that your belief about God affects absolutely everything you do, and who you are. If you believe God is completely non-existent, then you will act massively different then someone who believes in the imminent return of the Meshiach. I hope that makes sense to you. At the very least, I’m praying for you… deal with it.

    Adam

  8. Thank you for your rebuke.

    we could of course go into a tit for tat discussion about what bad things stem from religion and what doesn’t, but i dont see any benefits in that.

    I wholeheartedly agree with you that the problem with religion is that it peddles absolutes “my religious book is right yours is wrong” but i disagree that this superstition is something we need.

    Allow me to clarify: We no longer believe in trolls, fairies or unicorns, we don’t miss or need these superstitions do we? superstition isn’t something that we need? we used to believe that women shouldn’t vote, but we dont miss that do we? (some places – religious societies – still has this mindset though) my point is that i dont see any reason for missing this ancient nonsense?

    When it comes to the Renaissances doctrine, this is true isnt it? haven’t we made it this far by replacing the old with the new and improved? isnt this mindset the only viable one for long term survivability?

    – look at the past, learn from those mistakes, then try to make today better?

    Its true that they didn’t have any pollution, or online sexual predators, they also didnt have any medicine, police, legal, system, steady reliable food supply, long life expectancy, dental hygiene, hardly anything at all actually.

    I have also read about pre-modern man and that they they might have had ceremonies for their dead etc. unfortunately i dont know enough about that subject to put forward any kind of arguments relating to a time period that far back, My study of religion and its origin stretches to early bronze age, if i try i might be able to find trails leading back even further than that, but as of today i dont possess this knowledge.

    “But hey, why listen to reason if it disagrees with you?” here you are totally wrong about me. The reason i started blogging in the first place about this subject i so that i can get in contact with people that have viewpoints that differ for mine. So please come back with more details around your comments and why you think for example that we need religion. or why Renaissances doctrine is so bad.

    I look forward to your comments EMP

  9. Okay, you have strong opinions… fine. I also strongly disagree with much that you said. Some of what you claim religion will “cause in the next ten years” has already started, so that shows no big nuts to claim.

    “…common denominator to all the worlds worst conflict areas, this meaningless cruelty, opression and incredible suffering all around the world stems from one thing. Religion!” You ever wonder why, Einstein?

    because religions have convictions in absolutes, and when those absolutes clash, boom, religious upheaval. Now, religion isn’t going anywhere as a global force… not that ALL things stem from religious hatred (though much of it does), but religion is too important to the human mindset.

    For the simple reason that what you think about God impacts every single thing you do, from wasting an hour at the strip club to going to church.

    “Bronze age mindsets belong in the bronze age, not in todays society, ” And therin lies the problem. The problem that was introduced in the Rennaisance is that it indoctrinated people to believe that the past is bad, and the future is good.

    Not that I don’t mind a fair bit of optimism (good for the soul), but come on. Back then, there was no pollution (no industry either), there were no “online sexual predators” (no computers either)… and for what it’s worth, religion, at it’s core, dates back well farther than the bronze age.

    If you do, in fact, follow evolution, then you should well know that scientists believe that “pre-modern” man practiced a form of religion (hey, he buried his dead) some 12,000 years ago. But hey, why listen to reason if it disagrees with you?

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