Why i hate religion!

Now i did an article on freedom without religion a while back, this has sparked other posts Sydspace and Sathfilms their responses are to long to be practical in the comments thread.

I appreciate their comments and i would like to clarify some issues.

I start with Syd: I still claim that mainstream religious doctrine ask you to blindly follow whatever the holy book says without any proof at all…this goes for Buddhism as well but you, if i read you right, comitt the error of comparing all religions as if they should be weighed as equals in my statement. In such a case you are quite right in separating Buddhism from the other mainstream religions. In fact i don’t see Buddhism as an actual religion more like a lifestyle choice comparable with opting to be a vegetarian. Buddhism is focused on the individual not on some all powerful omnipotent sky daddy.

Furthermore your post contains some glaring statements please allow me to quote a few lines

“but I can say, that religions and religious texts in the 21st Century are no longer being referred to as doctrines of truth.”

if i read this right you actually mean to say that when a suicide bomber blows himself up that he doesn’t justify indiscriminate murder and suicide from the Koran? the koran that proscribe, even glorify and promises rewards for such actions?

“Mind you, I admire atheists, as I admire anyone who has the courage to be proud in what their beliefs are. ” Just a technicality, but atheist don’t have any faith we don’t believe in anything superstitious, we don’t believe without proof.

“Escapedmentalpatient, you make an exaggerated generalisation about shit that you have no idea about. Have you ever travelled and lived these people that you talk about with so much authority.”
I am tempted to ask how would you know or judge my abilities, knowledge or experience in regards to this subject? I would have you know that my expertise related to this field is extensive.

I will get back to more details on why i or why we should all! hate religion after some comments to Sathfilms post.

Sathfilm:

In most of your post i am a bit unsure if you are actually arguing against me or with me? but you have some points that i feel i should comment on.

“You seem to think life is worth living because you are free to enjoy yourself and do what you think is right. Each of us has a reason we think life is worth it, or we are looking for one. I honestly don’t care one bit what that reason is, whether your bound by religion, values without religion, ideas about freedom – however what I do hate is when someone tells me that I’m wrong. Excuse me, but I don’t think anyone can tell me that I’m wrong without having a faith in something – God, humans, karma, whatever – that allows them to tell me that I’m wrong, and as such, their view is no more valid than mine.”

This paragraph presents itself as a wonderful example of why religious faith is wrong, no matter what denomination you call it, think what other aspect of your life would you “respect” any opinion or belief with the awe and reverence you give religious beliefs..

Would you accept a doctors belief that he could cure canser with leaches? or that your first born should be covered in cigarette smoke to purify it?

Of course you wouldn’t, the point is you are probably a smart rational person. But look at what happens when i generally comment on how stupid religion is, and voila! “however what I do hate is when someone tells me that I’m wrong. Excuse me, but I don’t think anyone can tell me that I’m wrong without having a faith in something”

Why do you get angry? if i told you, you have made some error or misunderstood something or that you are in some way in error on any other topic, would you be angry? wouldn’t you thank me?

If you believed you had to turn right to go to a, lets say shopping mall and i told you that that was wrong you had to go left, would you be pissed off?

Actually i think this is one of the main reasons for me to hate religion or any other beliefs in some form of god. Because only such belief can turn ordinarily reasonable and intelligent people into people inapproachable in dialog.

believing in something without proof is stupid no matter how you angle it, especially when we know how powerful a motivator belief is, imagine if i told you “don’t look behind you there is a guy pointing a gun at you” if you believed me imagine how you would react and feel?

Belief is a really powerful motivator! we schould not organise our lives or build our view of the world on things that have no shred of evidence or realism attached to it.

If we do we effectively freeze ourselves and our capacity to think and deal with the world in the instance we convince ourselves “there must be some god” what is the purpose of continuing to study ourselves or the universe? haven’t we effectively destroyed the foundation for our own curiosity?

4 Responses to Why i hate religion!

  1. […] to ‘Why I hate religion!’ Well, this is in response to ‘Why I hate religion’ published by escapedmentalpatient and some reflections on some of the statements made by this […]

  2. Thank you for your clarification, your response raises a few points that I feel it is important to address at this point.

    Firstly I am 100% sure that there is no god, but I don’t wake up every day reaffirming this. You don’t wake up in the morning re-affirming to yourself that there are no unicorns do you?

    With this in mind your comparison between belief in one self and a belief in god is an interesting one, but I think it is an impossible comparison since religious people also have belief in themselves to a certain extent.

    I am in no way as closed as you suspect, quite the contrary, allow me to attempt to clarify. If you and I have a discussion on any topic the conclusion in many cases wouldn’t be some neutral middle ground, chances are, one of us are simply wrong.

    If you present evidence to me that there is a god I would immediately change my mind, in fact I welcome all new information, you could say I am at present totally convinced but waiting and willing to be proven otherwise. Impose the above frame of mind on any religious person you know in regards to their belief and you will see it simply doesn’t fit.

    Let me try to make an analogy here to clarify. Imagine I place a glass on the table between us, its empty. What reason do you have to believe something magical and mystical lives in the glass? There is no evidence for it and therefor it doesn’t exist, it’s a figment of our imagination.

    The same problem arises in our discussion about god, “you cant prove that god doesn’t exist” quite right nor can I disprove that Elvis lives, that trolls live in my closet or that a giant penis is in orbit around the earth or that thousands of people think it will deliver us a new Saviour by impregnating Britney spears.

    Its safe to say that god doesn’t exist, because there is no evidence at all that such a thing exists.

    I know a lot about beliefs and “relative truth” isnt a frase I would use in this discussion, although I am familiar with the ideas and concepts surrounding this philosophy. In this case it wont be usable, because there are only 2 variables.
    1: god exists 2: god doesn’t exist

    You are of course free to feel uncomfortable if someone points out that you are wrong, although such a standpoint is part of what I call stupid belief. Why would you be angry at someone for proving you wrong? For giving you a clearer view of the world and teaching you something you didn’t know from before?

    “My second issue with what you were saying is that you seemed to suggest that morality wouldn’t exist without religion and superstition – please re-read my last post for my thoughts on that.”

    Maybe I wasn’t clear on this I meant to point out that morality has nothing to do with religion. Morality is intrinsic to human nature, not part of religion.

    “I have no idea how you can compare religious beliefs to street directions and think it’s a valid comparison.”
    Why isnt it a valid comparison?

    Now in your paragraph on belief being a powerful motivator helping the needy etc: I would say that you are mixing belief and superstition in this entire paragraph.

    If I for example give money to a beggar, I do so because I believe he needs it. Not because I think sky daddy is watching me to see if am doing the right thing. Isnt the first act of charity better than the second?

    Secondly your spiritual questions “Why are we here? What do we do?” Do you really need a sky daddy to ponder such questions? Arent you cheating yourself by placing sky daddy at the end of your understanding?

    Doesn’t in fact placing sky daddy there prevent you from thinking more about these questions? And perhaps finding a more realistic and satisfactory answer?

    As for your reference to famous scientists, nothing would clearer underline my above comment. Look at all the brilliant minds throughout history Newton for example, he to placed sky daddy at the end of his understanding, and it effectively prevented him from solving the problem of the solar systems orbital dynamics. Reading Newtons work you realize that this wouldn’t be such a big problem to solve for him but once he invoked “sky daddy” his brain didn’t spend any more resources on it.

    I also find the argument itself strange “that some scientist where religious?” sooooo? Many where not, and today most are not?

    No matter how you look at it, religion should be decried, in the least be open for dialog an criticism, I don’t think we as a spies es can afford to let people believe whatever they want.

    The people that crashed into the twin towers after all believed this was what god wanted, can we really afford the trauma that religious children go through growing up? Being force fed crap lies and superstitions?

    You will have to argue better if I am to change my stance on this, all reason and logic, in fact the brutality and hatred fostered by religious beliefs undermine the survival of human life on the planet.

    India and Pakistan for example, they have nuclear weapons! What happens in the next war between these two countries? Remember they already had 4 wars, its unlikely they wont have one more.

    Can we afford the continued segregation of the human race along lines of belief? You might be a moderate sort of believer, but do you think a radical Muslim cares that your views are moderate? Or do you think he would still kill you because you don’t believe in his core belief of Islam?

    I hate religion not only because of fundamentalist but I hate it because even people like you that are normally rational intelligent reasonable people defend it and fuel and defend the right to such superstitions.

  3. Arnie says:

    Thanks for the reply.

    I wasn’t arguing for or against you. I was discussing the matter of being close-minded, and also how religion doesn’t have to be bad, but, as you say, it definitely can be.

    I was suggesting that one can be close-minded and not even consider other possibilities even if they are atheist – aren’t you 100% sure that there ISN’T a God? Aren’t you reaffirming that every day? You may be Atheist but your still a belief in something surely – a belief in yourself and a belief that you’re free to live your life as you choose? Being so sure that religion is useless and that there is no God isn’t all that different to a religious person believing there is God and then getting stronger in their faith as time goes on. Yes, they are following a scripture but that is because they have the faith; you are living your life in a particular way because you don’t have that faith – but nonetheless you would both think that you are correct and that the other person is thus incorrect. My problem stems from the frustration of people telling each other that “you’re wrong” when these beliefs are personal, subjective and impossible to completely prove. I have no problem with you, I am merely stating that you appear to be as closed as a fundamentalist Christian, and if you’re not, please explain.

    Obviously people who believe that their religion is 100% accurate cannot believe in a relative truth, and I’m not actually suggesting that (i think) – I will write a post about that – so people are going obviously think that others are wrong etc. but I don’t have to like it and I don’t think it’s right.

    My second issue with what you were saying is that you seemed to suggest that morality wouldn’t exist without religion and superstition – please re-read my last post for my thoughts on that.

    Referring to your post: If you corrected me on an error and I realised it was an error I would surely thank you, but in matters such as this, it’s not so simple – if it was, we would all have the same faiths, or have no faith at all. I have no idea how you can compare religious beliefs to street directions and think it’s a valid comparison.

    You also state the obvious that belief is a powerful motivator. Yes, it’s the most powerful motivator, but then why is it bad if it is causing good things in the world? There a whole lot of good things occurring based on beliefs (helping the needy, reducing discimination, education and so on) not just the stupid narrow-minded stuff that causes deaths and hatred. People may organize their lives without a shred of evidence, but some would argue that the scriptures are the evidence – written documents of the proof. Nonetheless, that is not the point, people have these beliefs to give themselves meaning. Why are we here? What do we do? For me personally, I find it hard to believe that I just exist and that’s that. What gives you meaning? Why do you live your life as you do? Whatever that is for you, religion is that for others. I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, I’m just saying religion doesn’t have to be a bad thing although so many idiots turn it into something harmful because of an “absolute truth” hence that person is the only correct person. Believing in such absolutes makes me cringe, but that’s me and many will argue on logical terms based on their oh so accurate scriptures.

    Addressing your final paragraph, please go to that link I posted in my last post with the famous scientists who had faith in something more than just humanity. They were curious, and they definitely studied the universe. Some people might take it to extremes and put everything in hands of God and seemingly remove the reason for their very existence from the world. Their only reason to live is their relationship with God and the rest will be planned out. Others may believe in God because otherwise existence and the big “WHY” questions becomes something very difficult to answer. Yet, even if there is a God, and a person believes in it, they do not have to accept every inch of prescribed faith that seems ridiculous. Why is God restricted to certain religions? So, I feel it comes down to the individual to make sense for themselves. And even with a belief in God, a person can question why, and study the universe if they don’t simply believe that God will live their lives for them. You can argue with me as much as you want regarding your last paragraph, but the fact of the matter is, so many intelligent people believe in God and still study themselves and the universe (and obviously there are so many intelligent people who don’t believe in God and study themselves and the universe).

    I think you’re talking about fundamentalists, and then you’re hating all religions and belief systems based on a possiblity of God because of the fundamentalists.

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