Selfish religious idiots!

I was wondering? All of you who are so deranged that you actually believe in a personal god.

Have you ever paused to think about this? If there was such a being, one powerful enough to create the entire universe, time itself…

Why would he give a fuck what you think or do? how egosentric and self absorbed do you have to be to think that such a creature would prioritize you! Next to say…. a super nova that will seed the cosmos with matter for new solar systems?.

And why the fuck, would he favor your interpretation of distorted iron age literature?

Frankly i find the entire concept hypocritical, firstly living under constant omnipotent supervision would be horrible. It would be worse than living in Burma or north Korea.

In fact the ultimate hypocrisy is how Christians often use this as an argument, “but how will people be nice and good without god?” Listen pal! if your only reason for being good is that you believe sky daddy is constantly looking over your shoulder, you are not a nice person at all! You are just behaving because you believe you are being watched.

And they wonder why i despise religion?

23 Responses to Selfish religious idiots!

  1. M says:

    Thanks EMP for the valuable advice. I appreciate it . Maybe, I will postpone the Lapland trip too because we plan to hit Zurich this month. Let’s see.
    Actually, Berlin is the best city in Germany for foreigners to live in. Otherwise, you are quite right. Germans in general are hardnosed and they take time to trust you and take you into their own fold. Maybe, you had bad experiences in Berlin too.

    I have been in Sweden and the people there (especially the girls were damn friendly).

    Have fun in Scotland.

  2. M says:

    Muzolf my friend, You have valid points but as you agreed, some of what you said was contradictory though you said it only appeared contradictory.

    Of course, I am not the type who would blame the devil for anything bad I did . Far from it. I think that is the worst excuse a person can give and many Christians are guilty of that.

    I was also not saying that the world should be branded black or white. In fact, for many people what is right is what is accepted in their community. For the Nazis, killing Jews was right but for a sane person, it was not

    However, that is my point. The sane people are usually the ones who can take a call on what is right and what is wrong irrespective of religion . We all know that killing innocent people is wrong. However, there are christians who killed such people quoting the Bible and there were Nazis who were not really religious and who killed innocent people. My point is that there are many people out there who are inherently bad not because of any religious thing or because of the devil but because they were brought up the wrong way. Blame their parents or blame their surroundings. I am not saying they were born bad. No one is born bad. Some scientific studies do say that serial killers have some kind of genes or so but nothing has been proven beyond doubt. You or me would not go about and bash somebody in the face even when we were young and stupid just to show off but that happens here even in Berlin . A friend of mine was hit in the face just like that. My wife was harassed on the streets in Berlin in broad daylight. Thankfully for them and for me, I did not see this and my wife only told me later because she knows how crazy I can be if someone harasses my wife or any girl for that matter who is with me.
    Also when you said that humans do not mean most humans or a majority, you are wrong . In English, it does mean that but maybe you meant something else

    Good to be back . Take care.

    Escaped I was thinking of visiting Norway and Lapland in October or so or maybe later. Any suggestions? Maybe, my wife and me can meet you too in Oslo on en route to Norwegian lapland. Would be nice.If you dislike me even now , no worries.

    • Nice to have you back, unfortuenately i am posted to the Scottish office in october november so i cant meet with you. It would be fun.

      When visiting norway there are 2 musts to experience on the way to lapland 1 Hurtigruten (cruise ship) and 2 lofoten you can experiense both at the same time.

      in the oslo region i would recomend a trip to the opera, its brand new and the plays are excellent.

      of course if you are not into that oslo has a ton of cultural arrangements every day and its quite cheap for tickets. look at the newspaper or contact the local tourist offise.

      In norway the most important experience is the people just start talking to norwegians anywhere, say you are a tourist and that you want some recomendations or help or something, you will make tonns of new friends. Everyone are helpful and its totally safe. Not like Berlin.

      there are local travel offices all over the place they will help you out with information for free ( its called “turistforening”) Do some google searches “turistforening + (city name where you plan to stop or pass through)”

      Let me know if i can help, maybe if you let me know your travel rout i can give you some tips.

  3. M says:

    Muzolf,

    I am back and I hope you are doing good

    Read what you typed

    Allso while it is true that people are often bastards and would find exuses

    Earlier, in one of the debates with me , you said that most people are actually good people . They just get misled but your statement above contradicts it. What made you change what you thought?

    Well, you may come up with huge text to defend yourself and don’t get me wrong, this is no effort from me to belittle you . Actually,I think you are one smart guy but as I told you before, all people are not basically good. Religion is one reason these people commit atrocities but even without religion, these people would be ready to commit atrocities. Just one button has to be pushed be it religion or ideology or fantasy

    • Muzolf says:

      Matt, if people are basicly “good” or “bad” is entirely up to the wiewer as what they see as bad or good.

      But you are right, my stance on humanity might seem contradictory.

      “Humans are often bastards.” and “Most humans try to act good” does seems mutually exlusive right? Well i say both can be true. Depends on the wiepoints and the interpetation. “humans are often bastards” doesnt neccesarily means a majority and “Most humans try to act good” doesnt means they suceed all the time, or even try all the time.

      From a global, entirely objective ( Devoid even of the fact that the observer is a human ) point
      of wiew humanity is the scourge of the earth, the one species that is threateing not only its own eistence but the wery existence of life itself, and no human, not even the newly born is inoccent, for allready as a baby you consume the dwindling rescources of this planet.

      But lets leave that out of the picture right now, lets focus on a more human wiew shall we?

    • Muzolf says:

      From a closer look first you must ask yourself what is good and bad.

      Of course if your answer is, good is the will of some superbeing who supposedly created us than we might as well stop debating, because even a mass murderer could be called “good” if it was the will of said superbeing, and i refuse to accept such a “morality” as anything else as slave mentality.

      If you brake it down to the basics, humans do what evry other lifeform does as well. Its first of, trying to servive, second, it is interested in the well being of itself and its kin. Obviously, you cannot base an ethical code on just the basics, but its important to note, that with the excepcion of clearly sick or crazy individuals, this holds true for all of us.

      Now what is good and bad? They are mostly subjective ideas that are taken from the wievpoint of society. We live in a society, communities, that need rules and guidelines to make them work and ensure the survival and prosperety of its members.

      We are getting closer to the idea of good and bad, and many people actually stop at that level, but i would like to note, that even following these rules – Call them laws. – and guidelines – Call them our customs and our idea of good manners. – you could still be a total bastard, an unscrupulous powermonger or simply a jerk.

      Being “good” most of the time, by most peoples standards simply means striving for acceptance in your community. And most people do strive for the acceptance of those around them. That does not stops them from being cruel vindictive bastards at the same time.

      So how can someone be a jerk, and absolute asshole, a hateful cruel jerkass, even ruin others peoples lives, maybe destroy that of millions, while striving to be a good person at the same time? Simple, most people dont know, dont realise, or deny how they are and what they really do.

      Evrybody whants to imagine a good picture of him or herself ( With excepcion of those with a strong sense of self loathing, but lets leave psychological cases out of this. ), are you a thief and a Bandit? Call yourself Robin Hood, share a few coins of your loot and keep telling how you rob rich people not because they are the only ones worth to rob, but because they are baad baad rich people.
      Did you and your squad just rape some girls and then gunned down a village? Well they were inferior yellow skinned vietnamese, allso buddhists, not christians so its not like they were real people anywhay.
      Did you caused the death of millions of people since you came to power by starvation, bad military leadership and have sent a whole lot of them to Gulags? Its for the progress and good of humanity, most of them were reactionists and traitors too. And when thats not enough, think of it that way, one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.

      And when anything else fails, for the religious there is still “the devil made me do it” as an exuse.

      To cut it short, people dont face themselves! That most of them try to be good, doesnt means they succeed at it.
      Its not like any religion had helped in any mesurable sense. When you point at outside sources for good and bad, and you paint the world black and whilte according to this, that is not only not a solution, but makes matters worst as they allready are.

  4. […] its wrong to make exuses for religion. frankiesoup made some comments on some of my posts.  She has, unlike many of the raving idiots that get wound […]

  5. frankiesoup says:

    Thank you for replying, Muzolf and EMP – though you don’t seem to have read my original post properly. When I said ‘What harm can there be…’ I specifically excluded extremists and evangelists in my statement. (“What harm can it possibly do if people – *evangelists and extremists aside* – believe in a higher power?” were my exact words.)

    I’m a normal person – I get as pissed off as the next guy when folk come to my house and preach to me when I’m quite clearly not interested – but the majority of religious people would never dream of imposing their beliefs on others. When asked, they’ll comment, but otherwise they’re happy to leave well alone.

    In regards to the crusades, abortion clinic bombings, terrorist acts etc. I can say only this: Hitler was not religious and yet was responsible for the largest act of genoside Europe has ever seen. As the Nazi dictator proves, atheists with a vendetta against a certain faith can do as much harm as those with a bible in hand.

    In regard to your comment about people choosing a religion because it was taught to them by their parents, I’d have to disagree. I was raised to go to church every Sunday and was baptised Church of England. As soon as I reached an age when I could really start to look at the bible objectively I decided that it didn’t hold the answers I needed and I haven’t been back since.

    I spent my teenage years amongt girls who identified as ‘Wiccan’ who were introduced to the faith via the internet. Their Christian parents had nothing at all to do with their conversion. I’ve also worked for devout Muslims whose father moved away from India because he couldn’t stand the oppressive faith there and I am now married to a man whose grandfather was as Catholic as they come, despite the fact his son performs abortions on a regular basis.

    Admittedly, the passage that you quote (Matthew 10:34-39) does insight hatred based on faith, and I’m willing to accept that – I never once insinuated that any religion was perfect – but time changes things. Our society now is not one that encourages violence (I’m presuming you’re not one of the people who object to television violence so we’ll overlook that factor of modern life because I think it’s a crock of shit – folk were violent before television). When that passage was written, people were regularly stoned to death, had hands cut off for stealing etc. and whilst I know that this process is still practiced in some countrys – Saudia Arabia for example – it is a largely archaeic, unused form of chastisement. And besides, no one who is sane to begin with – religious or not – would read that passage and leave the house to go on a killing spree with a broadsword. I get the feeling that you’ll mention the crusades again at this point so I’ll point out now that Richard the Lionheart was likely suffering syphilis because he was a bit of a man-whore and that would have rendered him ‘slightly-nutty’ and therefore more inclined to take the afore mentioned passage literally.

    Finally, in response to your comment about my not knowing what life in Iran is like – fair enough, I don’t. I know what it’s like in Saudia Arabia though – the only country in the world where women are not permitted to drive and must be escorted in towns at all time by a man or face arrest. Egyptians have also offered to trade me for a camel with my husband… It’s a completely different world – a different culture – and I wouldn’t want to live there but it isn’t up to me to condemn them.

    And just to clarify, I’m not a religious person – I don’t identify with any faith, though until I was twelve I was made to go to church by my mother, who ran the local sunday school – hence my knowledge of Christianity. I suppose you could say I’m agnostic – I believe there is some higher power but I don’t think that human beings are equipped with the facilities to fully understand what that is – be it the chaos theory, reincarnation or good old-fashioned space aliens. I just think that scooping everyone who believes in something beyond themselves into a group to be dismissed as morons is grossly unfair. Darwin was a priest before he came up with the theory of evolution and no self-respecting atheist would ever dismiss him as an idiot. All people are different – yes, there are some twats out there who take their faith too far, but conversely, there are twats like Adolf Hitler who go the opposite way. You, EMP, are in danger of being the latter.

    • Muzolf says:

      Err you realise that that “Hitler was not religious” is absolute BS srpead by todays christian apologetic media.

      Do i realldy need to post the historic facts pointing out how Hitler was raised as a Catholic, that his Anti Semitism was rooted in Christian Anti Semitic tradition ( After all, Hitler and the Third reich were nowhere when in Europe there were allready anti-jew laws, and jews were burned on a stake whenver there was a mass hysteria about something. ) and how the Third reich was in bed with the Catholic church?

      Fact is Hitler was baptised, he went to a seminary, in his speesches his evry second word was “Jesus” and in the Mein kampf he pretty much described his relationship with god. The only counter arguments in this matters are letters supposedly written by him and members of his regime that were interestingly enough discovered by long after his death by peoples whos interests were washing the churches name clean.

      Just rembemer, Hitler was doing nothing else as what was suggested by Martin Luther, the founder of the Protestant church, in his infamous book “On Jews and their lies” It was this “holy man” as many christians see him even today, who said “Burn down their synagoges”

      IF you whant an Atheist dictator go with Stalin. He was indeed an Atheist, but allso he had his own personal cult wich came pretty close to a religion.

      While most mainstream christians and people of other faiths are indeed docile and less hostile, lets not forget that burning wiches was done by common people, who were pretty much the mainstream at the time, and that chistanity would have never succeeded wiping out the old european religions if not for great masses of people going amok, hunting down and killing pagans whos only sin was that they refused to let go the beleifs of their ancestors.

      • frankiesoup says:

        Actually, the Nazi decision to victimise the jews was a product of commitee thinking – the building in which the meeting took place is an ex-Prussian palace situated about an hour’s drive to the north of Berlin though (and you will say ‘conveniently’ for me) I have forgotton the name of it at present.

        Although in ‘Mein Kampf’ Jesus is a pretty prominent character the church was never part of the nazi plan for Europe’s future. I don’t know what happened – maybe the party’s ideas changed from Hitler’s original model over time. In any case, the idea emerged that organised religion should slowly be removed from occupied Europe because the church diverted power from the state. If people were obeying God, they weren’t obeying the government. In any case, the vast majority of nazi philosophies were apparently based on the work of Nietzsche. His were the writings that spoke about the ‘Superman’, the supreme being, that was later taken to mean the supreme race. Nietzsche was actively opposed to religion, specifically Christianity, as he believed its focus on the next life devalued this one. Interestingly enough, he died before the nazi party was formed and it was his sister – the wife of a prominent member – who brought his writing into the forefront of the party’s propoganda.

        As to witch burning – the common folk were largely uneducated, wildly superstitious and church gave them an explanation of the world that they could understand*. When you bear in mind that up until 1859 there was no definitive proof against the idea of spontaneous generation (the theory that life was born of inanimate objects i.e. geese grew from barnacles and crocodiles were formed from rotting logs) then magic isn’t really so far fetched. Besides, historians largely believe now that people used the witch hunts as a way of seeking revenge on those who’d wronged them i.e. “Such-and-such managed to pursuade my husband to go to bed with her… she must have put a spell on him because he’d never have gone on his own…” etc. A really funny and well-researched book that disproves many popular misconceptions about the dark ages is ‘Medieval Lives’ by Alan Ereira. It was written as a tie-in to the television series of the same name, narrated by the Monty Python star, Terry Jones.

        Anyways all that aside… I’ve read through a number of other posts on this site but I’ve not yet come across anything defaming Scientology. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the works of L. Ron Hubbard – the founder – but he’s on record as having said, ‘Business is not the way forward. If you want to earn money, start a religion.’ If you want to write a well-founded, properly researched journalistic piece about why religion does suck, I suggest you start there. Then take some pictures of the vatican – it was the final nail in the coffin, as they say, of my church going days. Why, when the religion professes to help those in need, does it waste money building palaces to the pope, afterall?

        I can see why people might disagree with the idea of organised religion on the grounds of finance, and on numerous others, but for the most part, people practising today are normal, level-headed individuals who genuinely want to help their fellow man and I passionately believe they should be allowed to do so without persecution from you or anyone else. I don’t agree with the vast majority of the things you say, but I think if you actually started to write your arguments properly rather than slapping up half-formed hate-filled thoughts then maybe you could have an interesting – if controversial – blog.

        Academic and journalistic writing involves making a statement and then giving several well sourced reasons why it’s true. Saying ‘chocolate kills’ comes across as extreme, but when followed by ‘chocolate has long been associated with weight gain, and weight gain leads to ill-health and the diseases associated with obesity’ then this seems less radical and is suddenly based in fact, rather than in the wild accusations of personal opinion.

        And telling people they’re wrong all the time because they don’t agree with you isn’t a good way to form an open, interesting debate.

        Anyways, I’ve wasted too much time here and fun as it’s been, I have to get on with things that are actually important. Toodles.

        *Though witch-burnings are recorded to have taken place as early as 1400, the vast majority occurred in the Stuart period – between 1602 and 1700 (dates are approximate due to the change from the Julian Roman calendar type i.e. the old year having ten months and being measured from March to March) – after the reformation when services were conducted in the common tongue rather than Latin.

        (note from escaped: criticism noted)

    • I did read your post, its clear i didnt get my message across.

      I will make a post explaining in detail why i believe you are wrong. And why i think your view is a big part of the problem.

    • Muzolf says:

      I cannot adress all of your points at the same time as its too much to keep in my head at the time ( Not to mention its midnight here, but i just cant wait. ).

      On Scientology. We did discuss it as far as i remember, but its easy to miss as it was nowehere mentioned in one of the original posts, but it was some of the many comments.

      It doesnt really matters is the victimization of the Jews was Hitlers own idea taken from Martin Luther, or was a decision based on cold logic of whom to blame for all their problems. Because even in the second case you have to see the reason why they choose to pick that target. The Jews, were allready mistrusted and hated by many for wich religion is solely to blame. Centuries before Hitler and his Ilk Jews were burned in Cologne, and were persecuted trough of europe purely on religious basis. Persecuting jews was somewhat of a “habit” in the old continent, and only the horrors of the holocaust seemed to have given a slap to peoples thinking so it is not the case today.

      Allso while it is true that people are often bastards and would find exuses to use whatever othervise amoral or unethical methods to their ends, religion, especially of the abrahamic sort seems to provide such exuses more often as other religions or philosophies. And all too often its is the prime motivator, not just as exuse. Othervise how do you explain the kidnappings of Aboregene Children in Australia to raise them as Christians, or the similar methods employed against Native Americans, where children were ridiculed for using their Indian names.

      Unlike Escaped i do not think that all religions are a problem. One cannot forget what they have contributed to our culture, to arts and our customs. But one shoudlnt forget how the most powerful ones did try to form one monoculture for the whole of humanity, destroying anything in their wake that didnt fit their wiews.

      In case anybody is worried about Religions and religious people having problems or threatened. Just so you know, its not Atheists who are the greatest threat to them. Never in history did disbeleif destroy any cult or religion. NO! The single greatest threat to a religion, is another religion. Any christian will be killed four times by a muslim, and vica versa, before any atheist would lay hands on them.

    • Muzolf says:

      Ah yeah, you allready asked it, sorry for the lack of response.

      I dont really think i would post, not sure if there is any topic i would write about, that you havent covered yet, but i would thank you for the opportunuty.

  6. Muzolf says:

    Frankie. Escaped might be over the line there, but he makes a valid point. Wheater or not theistic religions are about this or not, one who is not in love with it cannot get past it without seeing the egoistic and at the same time dehumanizing worldwiew of certain religions.

    Even if escaped was the jerkass you describe him to be, even if he was a mass murdering dictator or serial killer, that would not invalidate his point!

    And what harm could be done? Do we really need to answer that question again? The Crusades, the Inquisition, the wich hunts, the destruction of ancient european culture and knowlede not to mention other continents after Christianity started to spread, same with islam on a smaller scale. ( They were actually much less descructive in that regard. )

    And modern days, people who dont let doctors treat their sick children because they rather tray, abortion clinic bomings, 911, the catholic church raising its word against both contraceptives and abortions, as if their goal was overpopulation ( Granted, they counter that by helping Aids spread in their oppositions of condoms as well. )

    And i might add to mee it seems it you who has no idea what you are talking about. Most people identify with a religion because their parents teached them to. And religions are not rooted in the idea of being kind to others. Have you ever read the bible, or the Qran? Let me get mine, the words of the ah all so beloved Son of God, Jesus:

    Matthew 10:34-39 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.”

    Keep telling me how the interpretation of this is somehow supposed to be a message of peace and love.

    And the religions themselves, they were and are to this day, political tools. To get people to behave… like how some certain individuals whanted it. They are the work of people for whom it was not enough to control peoples lives, but whanted to control what people think and how they should feel. The ultimate tyranny, that came in the form of makebelieve stories of people in the sky waching you only because they didnt have the technology for anything else. If the prophets of old would live today, instead of teaching about God, they would probably try to install cameras in our homes, listening devices in our phones, and would send people to re-education centers.

  7. frankiesoup says:

    Also, I don’t think you’re quite qualified to talk about which people are and aren’t nice, following your “visit the ‘insane religious’ nations tour.” Just that comment alone, nevermind the trip itself, is amongst the most hate-filled, ignorant and frankly disgusting things I’ve ever read.

    You must have an incredibly high opinion of yourself to believe that it’s up to you to judge whether or not a culture is right or wrong.

    It isn’t the religious people in the world who fill it with war – it’s people like you who hide behind tags of Christian, Muslim and Atheist etc. in an attempt to hide what frightened, cowardly fools they are.

    I pity you – it must be terrible being so afriad of what is different that you have to lash out and call it wrong.

    • You are typical of the religious exusists i have beacome so familiar with.

      If you feel reality as experienced on the ground in iran is discusting you scould take a peronal trip there, or perhaps afganistan they have a lot of religion. ANd what a place it is.

      I have every right to condem anything i see that is just plain wrong, and religion is one such thing. I pity you that you cannot see this tryth and that you feel it nesseseary to hide behind political correctness. you are clearly not free to freely express yourself or to the world as it is.

  8. frankiesoup says:

    You’re entitled to your opinion – as is everyone – but surely you see the hypocrisy in what you’re saying? Your theory that everyone who believes in a god is self obsessed and egocentric is somewhat undermined by your presumption that anyone wants to listen to this tired, angry rant anyway.

    What harm can it possibly do if people – evangelists and extremists aside – believe in a higher power? It hurts no one and often offers comfort and help through difficult times. These religious organisations are about more than just spiritual welfare – they’re concerned with making the community a better place, letting neighbours meet one another and creating an invaluable social network.

    Most people who identify with a religion – be it Christianity, Islam or Buddism – do so because they feel a connection with those particular teachings, not because they want to be made to feel guilty, as you seem to imply. If you actually took the time to research what you’re talking about you’d learn that all religion’s are rooted in the idea of being kind to others because it makes the world a nicer place to live in, not because there is a fear of some intangiable father-figure, ready to spank. Christianity preaches forgiveness anyway – God being prepared to forget all former misdeeds as long as the sinner regrets doing them. I’m not sure about other faiths, truth be told, so I don’t want to comment and come across as ignorant as you do.

    • i have if you read some more of my posts spent considerable reasources looking into religion, religious communities and nations. You seam to be focused on christianity, if i read you correctly, and you seam biast. I suspect you are a believer yourself and you resent the critisism.

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