A friend of mine asked me what would be the best argument against the Christian faith, i thought about this for a while. I mean what do you chose when the selection to choose from is almost infinite. After all just the Christian posters to my blog gives me loads of sad examples to choose from.
I thought about using the crusades, or the klaptokratic dictatorial rule over Europe and the rest of the world or maybe i schould point to the inquisition? or perhaps burning people alive at the stake for imaginary thought crimes etc etc etc etc, the historical palette offers boundless choice on this subject.
I dismissed these as examples due to the fact that not everyone can relate to historic suffering, even though its suffering and abuse on a monumental scale.
No i decided to restrict my choice to current affairs, not that that really narrowed the choice down much. I mean with female sexual mutilation, child molesting priests, tv evangelists begging for money, etc, etc, etc, etc. The current palette, just like the historical, offers a baffling array of almost boundless choice of examples of Christian, abuse, opression, corruption, moral deprivation ,violence, injustice, stupidity, etc,etc,etc the list just goes on and on and on.
After considerable consideration i decided to use the following as the ultimate example against the Christian faith.
Yes George w Bush.
Hero to none, vindictive, speechless, moronic, a true Christian dimwit with a flare for the use of violence.
I desided to choose GW as the ultimate example, not only is he a piss poor leader, he is an idiot. i chose to use him because he was elected, not because he was a good leader, not because he was a good politician nor is he learned or a man of action,,, no he was mainly elected because he is a Christian with conservative (read – archaic old fashioned) values.
So thanks to the stupid Christian masses of America we now have the Iraq war a free falling American economy that is in death for the coming generation, we also have no progress on environmental issues or improvements in living conditions anywhere in the third world.
So thanks to all you Christian Americans that voted this clown into office, the rest of the world takes solace in the fact that your own children will suffer with the rest of us in the foreseeable future.
anyways this is my favorite ultimate example against the Christian faith, does anyone else have any ideas? i would love to hear them.
April 15, 2008 at 12:53 pm |
Oh yes, the Israelis started the war. I do agree . They started the war following the support of some Nazi elements by the Arab council members et al and other actions that provoked the Israelis. It was just a preemptive strike . When you are all by yourself ,sometimes ,your best chance is to attack than defend. For your information ,the Yom Kippur war was started by the Arabs. They thought that the Israelis would be sleeping during their holidays and actually some of they were and that is why they suffered some losses in terms of lives et al . The Yom Kippur war is one example .
The Nazis were well prepared and technologically advanced and so are the Israelis. The Nazis wanted to get rid of the Jews . All Israelis do not want all the Arabs gone . They want to live .
April 15, 2008 at 12:03 pm |
Oh i agree, just as the Nazis were well prepared and technologically advanced too. For evry dead German soldier there was ten dead russian two american and one brittis soldier who bit the dust.
And they arent really surrounded by enemys. Theres is the sea you know.
Anywhays, this “We are surrounded by enemys”, stuff is one of the best ways to justify their deeds. Remember your argument about America, that the japanese attacked them? Well just for your information, Israel attacked Egyt and Syria, not the other way around. Since its existence, they are the ones on the offensive. Not once, had a country declared war on Israel without Israel taking military action against them first. So? Whos the agressor here?
April 15, 2008 at 11:18 am |
Well ,there is a lot of propaganda about the Mossad too . For that matter , we do not know the effectiveness of the Mossad either. There is a lot about the Mossad that is not known . I mean where their Katsas are ,who their Katsas are. All people know is that there are Katsas. The same applies with other major organizations like the CIA and the KGB ( though the KGB has another name now ). The huge successes of the Mossad were publicized for many reasons . One reason was to convey the message “ Do not mess with us “ . I mean imagine one country holding its ground against enemies on all sides. Of course, they do get monetary support from the USA et al . They even get arms but they are the ones fighting it on their own .
I am not glorifying Israel but the Israelis are really smart whether you agree or not .
April 15, 2008 at 10:47 am |
What im saying, that a secret service may be known, but their actions not necessarily. Until today we dont really know the full extent and effectiveness of the KGB or CIA -s infulence and actions. The documentarys about them are propaganda and assumptions taken as facts. Since both organisations still exist ( Eve nif the KGB is now called something else. ), they are still skeletions in their closets.
April 14, 2008 at 12:16 pm |
The best secret service agency can do with a little of publicity . You cannot keep such things secret for a long time . The best will be appreciated. Special ops or whatever. They are the best. Well ,the CIA is a secret service too .The MI6 is too . The KGB is one too .Many know about it . What are you trying to say my friend ?
April 14, 2008 at 11:40 am |
“Easily the best secrete service on the world.” Thats a statement that makes no sense, unless you know something you shouldnt put on a public blog.
Secret services are by nature, the best when they are unheard of. Special ops is another category.
April 14, 2008 at 7:26 am |
Well ,sometimes you hear about something because it is good . Sometimes , it is all propaganda. It depends on how you look at it . You hear about David Beckham a lot . However, he is good too . People say he is overrated. I am no fan of his but you got to give the devil his due. There is no smoke without fire.
You say that the Mossad mixes special ops with secret service. I do agree that it does. Read Secret Soldier by Muki Betser if you get the time . The point here is not why they are effective. The fact remains that they are effective. Most of their enemies are primitive idiots too . However, they operate almost everywhere in the world . For all you know ,they might be in Hungary too though Hungary ( They will have umpteen Katsas there )
I still stand by my opinion that the Mossad is easily the best secret agency in the world . Period .The response to what Black September did ,the bombing of the reactor in Iraq and the Entebbe operation to name a few…..I could go on …..
April 11, 2008 at 1:25 pm |
Umm, and here you are wrong, the main reason people think that the Mossad is more effective, becouse they hear about ther actions, its propaganda. However, a secret service is really effective then, when its underestimated, or their actions are actually unknown.
But your right too, the Mossad is effective in many ways, but it actually mixes special ops with secrec service, wich is not allways a good idea. It leaves it more open to be compromised. If most of their enemies werent primitive idiots and islamist fundies with no brains, they would be in serious trouble.
April 10, 2008 at 12:04 pm |
Wait,wait Muzolf . I did not say I admired the atrocities of the Israelis . I admired their tactics especially the Entebbe operation . Did you read what I typed before ? I never admire killing innocent people .However, the intelligence network of the Mossad is envious . You got to give the devil his due . I am no fan of the CIA or the KGB . They are in no way as effective as the Mossad. So ,I do not admire any atrocities committed but I admire the ingenuity of the Mossad in genuine operations like the one at Entebbe where they went to a country almost 8 hours away and came back almost unscathed. This is what I admire . Get it ?
April 10, 2008 at 10:45 am |
Mossad, bravery and smartness? You mean the ones who kidnap people from other countries, make palestinians with medical education disappear, and cover up Isreals nuclear weapons program by denying help or justice from the poeple (Their own people.) who got radiation poisoning thanks to it? Yeaaah, real heroes.
I guess you admire the KGB and CIA too, right?
April 10, 2008 at 8:57 am |
Yes, most of the idiots were not following the Bible . How can Christians murder Jews if they follow the Bible ? How can they murder anyone for that matter? I do agree that though there is a lot of anti Semitism among Christians and one reason those idiots say is that the Jews murdered Jesus . Of course, there are many Christians who love Jews just because they think they are God’s chosen ones. I am pretty stoic about this . I think there are really bad Jews and really good ones. I have no special liking for them and of course, I have no hatred for them too . I admire the Mossad and the special forces for their bravery and smartness. Of course, I do not like it when some of them commit atrocities though .
Many people will not agree with me about Christianity being meant to make people nice. I do try to make the best out of it . I am not a poser and I think I do practice what I preach .I cannot prove it to you though .Anybody who burns science books or attacks homosexuals in the name of Christianity is crazy to say the least. See, Muzolf , I would be seen in the same light as you in the eyes of radical Christians . They would probably have more sympathy towards me but they would hurt me too if I did not join them. I do not care because for me religion is good but only if it makes you good. If you have a religion that encourages you to do bad and hurt others, it is not a religion anymore .It is trash . Of course, murderers know that they doing something wrong and radicals think they are doing something right even if they kill or maim other people . It does make these asses dangerous
Let’s hope we can control these idiots and never let any fundamentalists from any religion come to power . The world will be doomed. Something tells me though that the next war will be fought with religion as the main agenda
April 10, 2008 at 6:34 am |
Matt if that was true, than trough most of european history, nobody was truly following the bible. Becouse the catholic church itself, was most of the time antisemitic, why do you think it was not allowed for Jews to buy land? That law was pressed on by the church.
I understand that you think christanity is meant to make people nice, but what you fail to see, most of the time this is not the case. In your interpretation the bible doesnt promotes hate, unfortunatly, sociologists, and even most christians ( While they call it righteusness, in truth it is hate. ) wont agree with you. Twelwe out of Fifteen centuries of the christian church history is about bloodshead and opression.
Please exuse me, if i rather see the 90% of christians, the bigoted idiots as the ones truly representing christanity, not the minority ( Including you ) who really tries to makes the best out of it. That is, as you claim to be. but i whonder if it was widely accepted to burn science books going against the bible, “herectics” and homosexuals, if you werent one of the ones doing it too. It was normal people doing thise horrible acts in the past too you know. Becouse they believed it to be the right thing to do.
Thats why religions is so dangerous. A murderer will know that he has done wrong, even if he doesnt cares, but its religion wich can get normal people to be utter monsters, and feel good about it too.
April 9, 2008 at 12:57 pm |
Muzolf ,
I did not read the Mein Kampf and I never denied the history of Hitler. He liked Christianity and the SS party had strong links to the church . Just that if you read history ,you will understand that later on ,the church was not that respected by the Nazis anymore . Check out Wikipedia . That is just one source . I mean they had strong links with the church but there was a hidden agenda. It is just how you look at it . If someone really follows the Bible ,he or she cannot be antisemitic . He will only be sympathetic . Don’t you get the point my friend ?
I will post another blog in response to George Bush being a Christian . You can draw an analogy between him and even Hitler. They had their own vested interests. They used Christianity to garner more support from idiotic gullible Christians since they needed their support . It is just like me doing something wrong and to garner support, I try and act as if I believe in something what many believe in to get support . Once I get there, I distance myself from those people . Don’t you see the obvious difference? When the Bible says ,thou shall not kill ,how could Hitler murder 6 million Jews ?
So ,though I do not know as much about Hitler as you know , what I said is not nonsense .
April 9, 2008 at 10:11 am |
Oh and that thing about disowning the church. Its a blatant lie, a christian lie. A prime exemple how christians try to twist and bend history to their liking. Not the first time i must mention. Historians actually found as well that it was really the christians who torched Rome, and Nero became the scapegoat becouse he persecuted christians, but later chronicles were unfortunatly written by christian monks, who naturally demonised their enemy, and tried to blame him for even their own crimes.
April 9, 2008 at 10:05 am |
Matt please stop spreading your ignorant ideas becouse your post shows you know absolutly nothing about the history of WW2 or that of Nazi Germany.
Read hitlers Mein Kampf. Even the swastika is a christian simbol. Hitler was Christian.
Some facts about him:
-Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.
- As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school.
- Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.
- As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy
This is from the Mein Kampf: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.”
- Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church.
- Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican.
- Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education.
Some facts of the Nazi Regime:
- Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home.
- The Nazi regime began to control schools insisting that Christianity was taught.
- The Nazi regime included anti-Semitic Christian writings in textbooks and they were not removed from Christian doctrines until 1961
- The Nazi regime having full blown power over the people began to forcibly convert all its military to christanity.
- The Nazi regime forced the German soldiers to wear religious symbols such as the swastika and they placed religious sayings on military gear. An example is the German army belt buckle which reads “Gott Mit Uns”. For those of you who do not speak German it is translated as “God With Us”
- The German troops were often forced to get sprinkled with holy water and listen to a sermon by a Catholic priest before going out on a maneuver.
- The Nazis created a secret service called the “SS Reich” that would act as spies on the dealings of other citizens. If anyone was suspected of heresy (Going not only against the Socialist party but CHURCH DOCTRINE) they would be prosecuted. Much like the inqisition.
And as for the pagan cult lie, please read this quote from Hitler:
“National Socialism is not a cult-movement– a movement for worship; it is exclusively a ‘volkic’ political doctrine based upon racial principles. In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship… We will not allow mystically- minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else– in any case something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our programme there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will– not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord… Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed. Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men.” -Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg on 6 Sept.1938.
Its pretty clearly explains where he and his party was standing. Hitlers Anti-semitism was not coming out of thin Air, it was directly coming from christian anti-semitism. Many thimes in his speeches and his writings ( Even personal ones, not revealed to the public. ) talk about how he was devoted to God, and he was fulfilling a mission given by him.
April 9, 2008 at 8:12 am |
Muzolf ,here you go again with your debate about Nazis. They just duped the catholic church to rally support . Read the history . Read the book Defying Hitler by Sebastian Heffner. It does talka lot . I read that book a month or two back . Once the Nazis got the support they needed ,they disowned the church . First of all ,catholics if they are really catholic . cannot harm Jews. Many catholics and other Christians think that Jews are God’s people . Don’t you get it ? So ,the Nazis were just manipulative. Hitler was their leader
April 9, 2008 at 6:11 am |
Hey, but pokemon is satanic.
))
Hee hee, ok, sorry couldnt leave that one out. Thats actually new to me, i know how in the jesus camps, they talk about Harry Potter being satanic. ( The only part of modern culture to bring kids to read again, even if i myself are not a fan of it. ) Wich i find ridiculous. About pokemon, duh. Its maybe a shallow attemt of selling toys and other stuff, but Satanic? Oh please.
April 8, 2008 at 2:29 pm |
Another example: THEIR STUPID SUPERSITIONS THINKING THAT POKEMON IS SATANIC.
April 8, 2008 at 11:10 am |
And how could i forget, the usual argument “But give me an exemple today.”
In zimbabwe, christian priests accuse small girls to be wiches, or demon posessed, and if the parents cant pay for the excorcism, she is burned.
And before somebody comes with the wichraft argument, i did some more reasearch on the fact, and the exact opposite is true. The ones actually practicing wichraft – Who arent burning small girls, i must mention – are allso persecuted by the christians.
Or there is Ireland, where protestants and catholics kill eachother to this day, or the american abortion clinic bombers, who are so “pro life” that they kill people for it.
April 8, 2008 at 10:38 am |
D, when? Where are you living, on the moon? No, let me guess, in the USA, where the only history and geopolitics lessions include your own few hundread years history and how your election goes.
The inquisition, a christian institution was responsible for the torture and murder of several thousand inoccent people. “Heretics” – Meaning who disagreed with the church about their belief in god. – Moores ( Muslems. ), and woman accused being witches. – Meaning, widows who couldnt get a new husband soon enough. -
And of course there were the crusades, later the slaughter of the native population of america.
And if you whant something more recent, there is the Holocaust. Yes, of corse, i know the lies about Hitler being a cult worshipper, but the truth is, he was a christian who believed to have been given a mission by God. He had the full support of the Roman Catholic church, and soldiers of the wermacht were all baptised, becouse the Nacis did not tolerate atheists in their ranks.